(14-11-2017, 20:05)hibeejim21 Wrote: This is the lie thats put out by the brexiters, this notion that the UK can do its own business in 2017, it cant, it is wholly dependent on other nations.

Honda aren't going to change their business strategy to suit brexit. They already have it as good as it can be with their manufacturing and support centres throughout the EU. That was the part of the gig with them bringing plants here in the first place!

The tories might have to throw them another bung.

(14-11-2017, 21:49)0762 Wrote: Chill! Brexit will never happen and common sense will prevail lol!  

(14-11-2017, 21:49)0762 Wrote: Chill! Brexit will never happen and common sense will prevail lol!  

(15-11-2017, 18:05)Devongone Wrote: My views haven't changed. Before the referendum result I thought the choice was between No Deal and Remaining .... and I still think thy're the only two players in the game.

Everyone talks about the cons and the fake facts behind that result ...... but wasn't it always the concept of a negotiated departure that was the biggest con of all? We come out of talks and pretend they were fruitful. They come out and threaten that our pets are going to get it. Rapprochement my arse! Cameron spent months touring and glad-handing every member state before the referendum and achieved next to nothing. During the debate Germany and France made it clear they'd make us sorry if we voted to leave, they never gave us any positive reasons to stay and still haven't as far as I'm aware - even though there are some. Now the talks can't move on for reasons the EEC has imposed both upon itself and the negotiations. The truth is that either:-

No deal can be achieved because negotiations have never really started, despite what we see on TV.
or:-
No deal can be achieved because the angry statements and threats from nice Monsieurs Juncker et Barnier were actually the negotiations themselves and represented positions they would never leave. (There was once a Grand National winner called Comply or Die, that's the Strasbourg negotiation technique.)

As our Government is largely clueless and doesn't really know whether the country wants to leave or not (which may actually make it representatively democratic), there is no real impetus, other than Mrs May trying to frame a 2019 date in law, for anyone to move anything on. It is obviously in Europe's interest to go as slowly as possible to ratchet up the pressure on us. Sadly of course they are as inefficient and twice as bureaucratic as us ....... so even if they decide a deal would be in their best interests, they'll move too late. Seven years to get a trade deal with Canada because of the opposition of two small parts of Belgium?!!!***

There is of course a chance our government will commit suicide. If Labour wins the election a quick deal would be possible, as would another referendum. I'd vote Corbyn but I'd still vote to leave. The Common Market is like FIFA without the Caribbean connection in my eyes, but I'm not used to being in a majority and wouldn't expect to be. I don't like most of the company being a leaver puts me in, but then Tony Blair's a remainer (and that's poke your own eyes out with a sharp stick time).

I'd like to agree with 0762 that what finally happens will represent a return to common-sense in some way, but in truth I have to say I think we'll wind up somewhere for no-good-reason and we'll attempt to justify it as our country's opportunity to frame its own future (that's in, out, or shake it all about!)

(16-11-2017, 11:11)hibeejim21 Wrote:

(14-11-2017, 21:49)0762 Wrote: Chill! Brexit will never happen and common sense will prevail lol!  

No it will happen, because it's the will of the hard right,and the likes of Murdoch and putin. And a tory government that are their bitches.

The question people should be asking is "what do they get out of it,and how does it affect me?". Instead it was "this will get rid of johnny furriner" from my high street".

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(15-11-2017, 18:05)Devongone Wrote: My views haven't changed. Before the referendum result I thought the choice was between No Deal and Remaining .... and I still think thy're the only two players in the game.

Everyone talks about the cons and the fake facts behind that result ...... but wasn't it always the concept of a negotiated departure that was the biggest con of all? We come out of talks and pretend they were fruitful. They come out and threaten that our pets are going to get it. Rapprochement my arse! Cameron spent months touring and glad-handing every member state before the referendum and achieved next to nothing. During the debate Germany and France made it clear they'd make us sorry if we voted to leave, they never gave us any positive reasons to stay and still haven't as far as I'm aware - even though there are some. Now the talks can't move on for reasons the EEC has imposed both upon itself and the negotiations. The truth is that either:-

No deal can be achieved because negotiations have never really started, despite what we see on TV.
or:-
No deal can be achieved because the angry statements and threats from nice Monsieurs Juncker et Barnier were actually the negotiations themselves and represented positions they would never leave. (There was once a Grand National winner called Comply or Die, that's the Strasbourg negotiation technique.)

As our Government is largely clueless and doesn't really know whether the country wants to leave or not (which may actually make it representatively democratic), there is no real impetus, other than Mrs May trying to frame a 2019 date in law, for anyone to move anything on. It is obviously in Europe's interest to go as slowly as possible to ratchet up the pressure on us. Sadly of course they are as inefficient and twice as bureaucratic as us ....... so even if they decide a deal would be in their best interests, they'll move too late. Seven years to get a trade deal with Canada because of the opposition of two small parts of Belgium?!!!***

There is of course a chance our government will commit suicide. If Labour wins the election a quick deal would be possible, as would another referendum. I'd vote Corbyn but I'd still vote to leave. The Common Market is like FIFA without the Caribbean connection in my eyes, but I'm not used to being in a majority and wouldn't expect to be. I don't like most of the company being a leaver puts me in, but then Tony Blair's a remainer (and that's poke your own eyes out with a sharp stick time).

I'd like to agree with 0762 that what finally happens will represent a return to common-sense in some way, but in truth I have to say I think we'll wind up somewhere for no-good-reason and we'll attempt to justify it as our country's opportunity to frame its own future (that's in, out, or shake it all about!)

It will be no deal unless the EU provide one for us that suits. Unless we honour our commitments to the EU budget,or reach an acceptable compromise with the figure,it's been that way since day one. Listening to those closest to the talks its obvious davis has deliberately not advanced that issue, he is definitely pushing for a no deal scenario.

The issue of Cameron and the EU is moot,because the UK already had the best possible deal from the EU whilst retaining membership. They allowed opt out after opt out and generous rebates to keep us on board. Cameron was also undeniably a complete fuckwit too, how does that never get factored into the nasty old EU keeping us down calculations ?

Anyone notice that rabid,lunatic brexiteer redwood advising investors to move their money out the Uk before brexit? Why would he do that if we are heading for the land of milk and honey. Pray do tell ?.............. I'll tell you why, because a right wing cabal made up of people from the UK/ international elite believe that in the UK the population doesn't work hard or long enough, and are over paid for their level of production and want to push us towards low wage, low tax, low service economy similar to an Asian country. And also very much part of their agenda was to remove the UK from the EU prior to the EU's moves in 2019  to deal with large scale tax avoidance and a crack down on the use of offshore tax havens (and it took a german paper to give us all a little wake up call on that front recently)

These people believe in absolute dog eat dog capitalism with practically no protection for the worker or the consumer, or, for that matter, the environment (and boy is that going to step up in terms of relevance soon)

There are a number of reasons why the single market is the UKs only real option, but the main one is that we are basically a service industry now. I know corbyn is sincere about expanding our manufacturing base but you are looking at hundreds of billions to try and get us back there and at the moment the likes of china will do us on price every time and that's before we even consider further automations impact.

We will end up re-joining the EU in the future, I have no doubt. And next time it wont be "a la carte" either,we will likely end up in the euro. Because after all the shit they have had to take over this nonsense the 2 parts of Belgium will likely say "**** that for a game of soldiers".