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+--- Thread: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? (/showthread.php?tid=2762)
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RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - 0762 - 16-09-2016
I think unity in Europe is paramount to holding stability on the continent. Isolationism is part of the extreme vocabulary of smug b####### like Farage and others within our shores who kept up this charade for years until the eventual bizarre brexit position that has baffled millions of Brits as well as millions of pragmatic Europeans.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - St Charles Owl - 16-09-2016
(16-09-2016, 21:53)0762 Wrote: I think unity in Europe is paramount to holding stability on the continent. Isolationism is part of the extreme vocabulary of smug b####### like Farage and others within our shores who kept up this charade for years until the eventual bizarre brexit position that has baffled millions of Brits as well as millions of pragmatic Europeans.
Isolationism is only one possible outcome of leaving the EU though, we can still be a key trading partner with them and of them with mutual benefits, we can still allow cross border immigration that for sure will make it harder for EU citizens to come in to the UK but does have a reasonable mechanism for entry. The one benefit since Brexit is the disappearance of Farage off the scene, having a proper professional negotiation team pulled from the moderate ranks rather than the left or the right of the political spectrum should allow us the create a civil and fair solution to the split.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - 0762 - 16-09-2016
We currently provide a massive amount of trade to and from Europe and there's no doubt that European countries will not want to lose that trade for obvious financial reasons. However, the benefits of being a partner will be lost and the economic impact on a country like the UK that already has billions of pounds worth of debt (and it is increasing), will be huge! Brexiters like Farage and Johnson effectively 'sold a pup' to the mugs who willingly went along with the crap they were uttering. Even leaving the EU was never as simple as these morons were suggesting and it's actually a very complicated processs that could take years if it ever takes effect anyway and the UK gov is willing to take the brunt of another expected recession as an immediate consequence of such a stupid move.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - hibeejim21 - 17-09-2016
(16-09-2016, 01:45)St Charles Owl Wrote:(15-09-2016, 23:58)0762 Wrote: That's one more example of an extreme consequence of the shameless political manoeuvring by pro brexit suspects like Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson who flaunted the anti immigration 'ticket' with impunity and tried to frighten people with their extreme speculation and insinuations!!I sometimes wonder if 'little England' is gonna transform into Germany of the 1930s when I read these stories of targeting certain 'foreigners'
Or we could just become a bit like the Germany of today!! They are starting to have issues now with immigrants being attacked or doing the attacking in German cities. Unfortunately with the extreme events going on in Belgium and France in particular, it becomes very easy for anti-immigration rhetoric to be listened to and even agreed with. This is not just a UK issue, the EU has to take a stand somewhere on this whole subject and Farage and Boris literally jumped the gun on the EU by getting their inflammatory message across both first and then far louder than the EU did. Immigration is a real issue, it cannot continue like it currently is in Europe and this effort needs to be lead by the moderates in the EU, not by the far right who are gaining ground in every country in the EU currently.
The uk's situation is nothing like the germany of today,nor does it face anything like the challenges germany does.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - ritchiebaby - 17-09-2016
It will, Jim. Germany's problems are almost all self-inflicted and I suspect the UK's will be too, after our Government produces a mish-mash of policies designed to appease all points of view which will inevitably alienate everyone. Then the "fun" will begin.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - 0762 - 17-09-2016
That's a good point to make hibeejim and IMO the big difference between the UK and Germany in that respect is that the UK is an island nation, an advantage that is still very beneficial whether we are in or out of the EU anyway. The challenges for Germany, located smack in the middle of Europe, are huge and Angela Merkel's 'compassionate stance/policy' on immigration/refugee provision could eventually prove to be her undoing as the 'middle ground' of the German people aligns with the political right to oppose the dilution of their indigenous population with even more immigrants. I personally hope that scenario does not unfold as I still perceive that a strong and revived EU needs Merkel, the leader of her Christian Dem party (Conservative but she'd barely be called a republican TBF) to push on with that revival together with other key players/Euro leaders. IMO she still has that political 'nous' and personality to play a vital role in such a revival but adverse political events could well overtake such aspirations to revitalise the EU and steer it to a better position of strength in years to come. Otherwise it's eventual break up could be inevitable as well as catastrophic - IMO unity is a collective strength as previously stated! The EU model was fundamentally sound and collective unity always was one of the corner stones of it's success through 'thick and thin'.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - 0762 - 19-09-2016
Ominously, Merkel's party, the Christian DP, blown away in the Berlin elections. Merkel's political future called into question again. The German leader already uttering that she wished she could 'turn back the clock' and change some of the decisions she made that have now affected her popularity. She'd underestimated the mood of the German people and, paradoxically, a genuine compassion for the plight of fellow human beings could be a huge factor in ending her outstanding political career. Be afraid if the centre ground of German politics is overwhelmed by the moderate right, allied to the hard right political parties!
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - ritchiebaby - 19-09-2016
As I said, self-inflicted.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - St Charles Owl - 20-09-2016
The AfD in Germany are rising up the polls just as UKIP did, they have started winning regional seats and will begin to have national influence at the next election, particularly as Germany is so reliant on coalition governments. For me, if the migrants continue to pour into the EU they will likely head for countries such as Germany and the UK, and if the terrorist attacks continue to happen then this sort of political swing to the right will continue until other countries give their citizens the same voting option that the UK recently had. As things stand I would not be surprised if those votes were to go the same way as ours for the same reasons!!
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - 0762 - 20-09-2016
I've no doubt Merkel won't give up without a fight and her recent 'act of contrition' is just the start of her trying to convince the German block vote/voters that she is still the leader for them to endorse! Watch this space.