(25-09-2019, 23:13)spireitematt Wrote:

(25-09-2019, 16:23)hibeejim21 Wrote: We are in a very dangerous spot at the moment, as Blackford pointed out earlier the SNP and greens would be willing to help corbyn form an interim government that could try and 'break the logjam'.

They would need the 21 'independent Conservative' MPs to vote with Labour/SNP and the Greens.

After Labour voted through their motion today at there last day of conference, I can't see them winning an election. The delegates voted to keep free movement for EU citizens and want to extend it globally to open borders. They want to give migrants the vote even if they don't have citizenship, close down immigration centres and scrap the rule on access to benefits so migrants and immigrants can claim benefits off the system even if they have not paid in or been here that long, they will also get access to the NHS and housing.

They also voted this week to abolish private schools and seize the buildings and put them under public ownership which is hypocrisy seeing as most Labour MPs send there children to private school.

The SNP are more like the opposition than Labour are. At least Ian Blackford can hold Johnson to account where Corbyn can't. Shame Ian Blackford can't become PM as he is the only leader who actually speaks any sense.

(25-09-2019, 23:13)spireitematt Wrote:

(25-09-2019, 16:23)hibeejim21 Wrote: We are in a very dangerous spot at the moment, as Blackford pointed out earlier the SNP and greens would be willing to help corbyn form an interim government that could try and 'break the logjam'.

They would need the 21 'independent Conservative' MPs to vote with Labour/SNP and the Greens.

After Labour voted through their motion today at there last day of conference, I can't see them winning an election. The delegates voted to keep free movement for EU citizens and want to extend it globally to open borders. They want to give migrants the vote even if they don't have citizenship, close down immigration centres and scrap the rule on access to benefits so migrants and immigrants can claim benefits off the system even if they have not paid in or been here that long, they will also get access to the NHS and housing.

They also voted this week to abolish private schools and seize the buildings and put them under public ownership which is hypocrisy seeing as most Labour MPs send there children to private school.

The SNP are more like the opposition than Labour are. At least Ian Blackford can hold Johnson to account where Corbyn can't. Shame Ian Blackford can't become PM as he is the only leader who actually speaks any sense.

(26-09-2019, 00:19)0762 Wrote:

(25-09-2019, 23:13)spireitematt Wrote:

(25-09-2019, 16:23)hibeejim21 Wrote: We are in a very dangerous spot at the moment, as Blackford pointed out earlier the SNP and greens would be willing to help corbyn form an interim government that could try and 'break the logjam'.

They would need the 21 'independent Conservative' MPs to vote with Labour/SNP and the Greens.

After Labour voted through their motion today at there last day of conference, I can't see them winning an election. The delegates voted to keep free movement for EU citizens and want to extend it globally to open borders. They want to give migrants the vote even if they don't have citizenship, close down immigration centres and scrap the rule on access to benefits so migrants and immigrants can claim benefits off the system even if they have not paid in or been here that long, they will also get access to the NHS and housing.

They also voted this week to abolish private schools and seize the buildings and put them under public ownership which is hypocrisy seeing as most Labour MPs send there children to private school.

The SNP are more like the opposition than Labour are. At least Ian Blackford can hold Johnson to account where Corbyn can't. Shame Ian Blackford can't become PM as he is the only leader who actually speaks any sense.

Ian Blackford is a good Hibee as well Matt!! A top man!
I  must also add that, just like you, Corbyn and the Labour Party have totally bemused me and up here in Scotland Richard Leonard and the inept "out of touch" Scot Labour Party have definitely lost it and will be literally "wiped out" politically even though they have almost got there anyway after the last 12 years of degradation!! But reflecting back to Corbyn and his party, they wanna be "all things to all people" if you get my drift but it does not work that way. He should be leading decisively and choosing a side - in Labour's case, it looks like it should be remain mainly because that is the "mood swing" in England re Brexit even amongst a lotta previous leave voters and the decisive "middle ground" is remain territory. As previously commented, "I'm stumped re this lack of direction and leadership but unsurprised as it has gone on for that long with no significant change"!!! Is it deliberately ambiguous??? I'm not sure any more!! I'd say sit still and let the Tories move from crisis to crisis and eventually implode!! Also watch Johnson's disgraceful narrative on his return to parliament tonight - worth watching because this was real poisonous stuff being uttered by a moron who is guising as a British PM but using Trump style poisonous narrative to try and separate into a "them and us" political scenario - it is horrible politics that are being played out by desperate RW scumbags and I certainly fear that someone is definitely gonna get hurt, or worse, if they don't tone it down!!

(26-09-2019, 23:13)hibeejim21 Wrote: "They ignored our veto in 2011 on the Greece Euro zone crisis and went ahead with what they were going to do anyway"


That isn't strictly true. Cameron amended our veto when he renegotiated our deal.  Non-euro members such as the UK were  “not to impede the implementation of legal acts directly linked to the functioning of the euro area and shall refrain from measures which could jeopardise the attainment of the objectives of economic and monetary union”.

Indeed, the 2015 Conservative manifesto boasts: “We took Britain out of Eurozone bailouts, including for Greece – the first ever return of powers from Brussels.”

(27-09-2019, 00:03)spireitematt Wrote:

(26-09-2019, 23:13)hibeejim21 Wrote: "They ignored our veto in 2011 on the Greece Euro zone crisis and went ahead with what they were going to do anyway"


That isn't strictly true. Cameron amended our veto when he renegotiated our deal.  Non-euro members such as the UK were  “not to impede the implementation of legal acts directly linked to the functioning of the euro area and shall refrain from measures which could jeopardise the attainment of the objectives of economic and monetary union”.

Indeed, the 2015 Conservative manifesto boasts: “We took Britain out of Eurozone bailouts, including for Greece – the first ever return of powers from Brussels.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/dec/09/david-cameron-blocks-eu-treaty - They ignored this though and went ahead and did what they wanted. Cameron mentioned this in the TV interview programme 'The Cameron Years'.

Only country we bailed out in the EU was Ireland. In 2010 when we were in the process of changing governments to the coalition and the Euro zone was in meltdown they asked Britain and Alistair Darling who was then the outgoing chancellor could Britain contribute to the bailout and Alistair Darling had to explain that he was the outgoing chancellor and couldn't do anything and spoke to George Osborne about this. What Alistair Darling did was give back the rebate to the EU to help them out. I remember the Euro zone crisis in 2010 because the EU were worried it was going to be the end of the EU because Italy, Greece, Ireland, Spain, Portugal were all in financial trouble.

(25-09-2019, 20:32)0762 Wrote:

(25-09-2019, 16:07)ritchiebaby Wrote: 0762, don't bother getting uppity about me using the term "will of the people". You have used the term yourself in your posts, so to criticise me for doing it smacks of hypocrisy.

Anyway, whether you like it or not, the EU referendum was for the whole of the UK, not just certain parts of it. And whether you like it or not, the first past the post system is the one in operation, so we have to accept it.

Whatever terms you and I might choose to use, my basic points in the last sentence remain.

Have I really used that "will of the people" irritating rhetorical line that applies to a split vote on a referendum!!???? I hate that line, it is a form of brainwashing deliberately used for years by lotsa Brexit backers and, NOT BEING UPPITY ABOUT IT, it is "tiresome" and I would never use it to cover such a split vote anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!! Show me a thread where I've used this line in that context!!??? If I was to use this rhetorical line to make a point, I'd use it only in a unanimous scenario!! WE HAVE TO ACCEPT A SHIT FPTP SYSTEM??? Why????? Why wasn't there a properly presented prospectus on a very complex issue as we have discovered down the years?????? That system is flawed and you f###### well know it is without me ramming that fact down your throat - you are not that daft!! There are books written by well qualified authors about the misuse and advantages gained by certain parties using a FPTP system - visit a book shop like Watermans and buy one of them and enlighten yourself re this outdated system!! As for the "lets dismiss Scotland because we are a region" line - well we live in a sovereign country and read how most Scots view that kinda shit being uttered against what is now a huge Scottish opinion to remain in the EU, much greater than in 2016 and contrary to what you clearly want!! Lastly I have no issue re your end line Ritchie!! The country is polarised and Scotland must somehow remove itself from this "poison" and get away from this insanity. Like many pro indy Scots, I am losing patience although I do think "patience is a virtue" and one must hold firm as Scottish resolve for self-determination is increasing daily - I guess it is all about timing but when???

(27-09-2019, 12:02)hibeejim21 Wrote:

(27-09-2019, 00:03)spireitematt Wrote:

(26-09-2019, 23:13)hibeejim21 Wrote: "They ignored our veto in 2011 on the Greece Euro zone crisis and went ahead with what they were going to do anyway"


That isn't strictly true. Cameron amended our veto when he renegotiated our deal.  Non-euro members such as the UK were  “not to impede the implementation of legal acts directly linked to the functioning of the euro area and shall refrain from measures which could jeopardise the attainment of the objectives of economic and monetary union”.

Indeed, the 2015 Conservative manifesto boasts: “We took Britain out of Eurozone bailouts, including for Greece – the first ever return of powers from Brussels.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/dec/09/david-cameron-blocks-eu-treaty - They ignored this though and went ahead and did what they wanted. Cameron mentioned this in the TV interview programme 'The Cameron Years'.

Only country we bailed out in the EU was Ireland. In 2010 when we were in the process of changing governments to the coalition and the Euro zone was in meltdown they asked Britain and Alistair Darling who was then the outgoing chancellor could Britain contribute to the bailout and Alistair Darling had to explain that he was the outgoing chancellor and couldn't do anything and spoke to George Osborne about this. What Alistair Darling did was give back the rebate to the EU to help them out. I remember the Euro zone crisis in 2010 because the EU were worried it was going to be the end of the EU because Italy, Greece, Ireland, Spain, Portugal were all in financial trouble.

Your article just backs up what I said. Also Cameron is a lying bastard, he knew exactly what he was doing.

He chucked the UKs veto rights for further concessions and signed off on a deal which contained the quotation in my earlier post. They didn't ignore our veto Cameron just sold it.