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+--- Thread: Labour Leadership Contest (/showthread.php?tid=9138)
RE: Labour Leadership Contest - Lord Snooty - 19-02-2021
Starmer has been very disappointing. The Leader of the Opposition is supposed to oppose. He's done nowt but back the worst ever government.
RE: Labour Leadership Contest - 0762 - 20-02-2021
Also "sitting on the fence" re so many contentious issues attached to this corrupt Brit govt really had to come to an end at some point when Starmer should've "stood up" for what he believes in and preached it. Corbyn had his faults but at least he stuck by what he believed in; whereas one can see that Starmer has been pandering to a big chunk of the voting population who became "red Tories" and embracing policies that I perceive to be alien to lotsa grassroots Labour supporters/members - gotta choose wisely, preach it and believe in what direction the Labour Party should be following!
RE: Labour Leadership Contest - Lord Snooty - 20-02-2021
Starmer needs to be setting out now just what he actually stands for. The Conservatives have failed the country at the most crucial time but are unbelievably still ahead in the polls.
This has to be because nobody knows what the Labour Party stands for anymore.
RE: Labour Leadership Contest - St Charles Owl - 20-02-2021
(20-02-2021, 15:55)0762 Wrote: Also "sitting on the fence" re so many contentious issues attached to this corrupt Brit govt really had to come to an end at some point when Starmer should've "stood up" for what he believes in and preached it. Corbyn had his faults but at least he stuck by what he believed in; whereas one can see that Starmer has been pandering to a big chunk of the voting population who became "red Tories" and embracing policies that I perceive to be alien to lotsa grassroots Labour supporters/members - gotta choose wisely, preach it and believe in what direction the Labour Party should be following!
I agree he is sitting on the fence on a lot of topics but his job is to win an election. Corbyn did stick by what "he" believed in, and it wasn't the same as the voters and he was stuffed in the last election, Starmer has to win back those voters or else he will suffer the same fate and the Tories will have another 80 seat majority. Its really no different to what the Democrats did here, they made sure they did what was needed to beat Trump, this meant Bernie was never going to be the nominee even though the progressive wing were desperate for him, they had to win to at least move the needle away from Trump. I know absolutely nothing about Starmer, not even seen him speak, but I would have thought he is keeping his powder dry at this stage.
(20-02-2021, 16:51)Lord Snooty Wrote: Starmer needs to be setting out now just what he actually stands for. The Conservatives have failed the country at the most crucial time but are unbelievably still ahead in the polls.
This has to be because nobody knows what the Labour Party stands for anymore.
Or nobody likes what they think Labour stands for, as I said above this is what Starmer needs to work out, what does he need to do to win an election, until he knows that he should stay on the fence or else he will end up a loser like Corbyn.
RE: Labour Leadership Contest - hibeejim21 - 20-02-2021
I tend to think Starmer has made a solid start for labour, he's undeniably pulled things back to the centre ground which is probably where they need to be but by the same token his weaknesses are coming more to the fore now. He isn't a good speaker, and is very uncharismatic. its hard to see him being a very good campaigner. He has also opted to wage war on the left instead of 'unify' which will undoubtedly have consequences down the line.
The elephant in the room of course is that England is a mostly a very conservative country with right wing values that do not jive with the labour memberships views. Blair managed to pull off that juggling act with the help of Black Wednesday and the papers behind him, but he was a highly combative politician as well. The papers have mostly been very kind to Starmer as they are just delighted he's not corbyn - but hate him or not corbyn actually had policies and a political base of support - but now there are signs that the press are losing patience with Keir sit on the fence attitude.
I had to laugh at him piping up about times now being like post war Britain and we cant go back to how it was before....but his solution to tap into that spirit is loans for small business and investment bonds
The tories are going to get a major boost from the vaccine roll out, and I can see difficult times ahead for him. That ITV piece looked like he doesn't take criticism well. Better get used to it mate!
RE: Labour Leadership Contest - spireitematt - 20-02-2021
The reason Corbyn lost in 2019 was because the electorate didn't like him as leader and because the 2019 election was about Brexit and nothing more. Back in 2017 a lot of the electorate liked the manifesto and agreed with most of it but the 2019 manifesto went too radical in my opinion. In 2017 Labour said they would respect the Brexit vote and that they would look at a jobs first Brexit which meant staying in the single market/customs union. Where as in 2019 Starmer was the shadow Brexit secretary and he talked about a 2nd referendum and Labour talked about getting a deal with the EU and would offer that deal in a referendum to the British people but certain figures in the shadow cabinet and Labour said they would actively campaign against the deal and campaign to stay in the EU. So right there they sent mixed messages to the electorate.
Starmer is trying to be move Labour more to Centre-right and be more like the Lib Dems to appeal to Tory voters and try and win back voters who voted Tory in 2019 but by doing so he is alienating Labour members and Labour voters. He is listening too much to focus groups and not to the members or voters. It's like they are repeating the same mistakes of 2010 and 2015. As it stands you've got Labour members who won't vote Labour or who are leaving because they don't like Starmer and because Starmer when he was elected as leader he stood on 10 pledges and he has broken everyone of those pledges. Then you've got the FBPE (Follow Back Pro EU) campaign who say they won't vote Labour until Starmer comes out and says that Britain will rejoin the EU.
Since Corbyn got elected as leader back in 2015 you had centrist MPs in Labour who attacked him constantly from the off because they didn't and still don't want a left leaning Labour Party. They don't even say the S word anymore even though it says on the membership card that Labour is a Democratic Socialist Party and believes in Democratic Socialism. I do believe there are MPs in Labour who use it as a vehicle to get elected on the gravy train because if they stood for the Lib Dems or Tories in certain constituencies then they wouldn't get in.
Labour need to be Centre-Left on economic issues but small 'c' conservatives on social issues. There is a really big opportunity here now after leaving the EU to invest in Britain and when I say Britain I don't just mean London, I mean the North of England, Scotland, Wales etc and that means investing in jobs, creating industries, social mobility. Focusing on jobs, education, healthcare, housing, transport, climate change but more importantly investing in people. They need to inspire people to aspire and also need to champion small businesses and self-employed people.
There needs to be a radical plan like there was in 1945 after the war to get this country going in the right direction once Covid has gone. If Labour stick to the status quo of what the Tories are doing or talk about austerity or cuts to public services then they aren't going to form the next Government. They also need to look at giving more power to local Government and giving more power to the Scottish parliament and the Welsh assembly. I think money generated in local economies should then be reinvested into those local economies instead of going to central Government.
RE: Labour Leadership Contest - 0762 - 20-02-2021
Invest in Scotland? I'll briefly comment that Labour may wanna do that but not by "spouting off" undemocratic/unconstitutional comments re devolution and Scottish independence as though we are a bunch of naughty school children up here rather than a population that is "seeing the light" re a fractured Union and regular OPs indicating that the Scot Labour Party is gonna perform negatively even more so than they've done before and that is mainly because they don't even gel with lotsa their own members up here who will "vote with their feet and walk away"! My prediction is they'll be almost "wiped out" in the May election and deservedly so because of Starmer's "out of touch" perception of Scottish politics and the SLP's patronising pro-unionist comments to their own membership. IMO the SLP should be forced to remove the word "Scottish" from their title - no great direction and no sincerity/desire in Scottish interests and that is a fact as they are too closely attached to their Westminster party.
RE: Labour Leadership Contest - 0762 - 21-02-2021
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/labour-mps-dismayed-at-orders-to-maintain-radio-silence-on-brexit/ar-BB1dRFoO?ocid=msedgdhp
Add in this Guardian revelation re Starmer's forced "muzzling" of Labour MPs on the subject of Brexit, clearly because there is a big chunk of the English populace that naively believes Brexit is a good thing while the words "I told you so" and "I didn't vote for this shit" are being repeated from anti Brexit citizens all over the country incl lotsa Labour Party backers and members.
RE: Labour Leadership Contest - 0762 - 22-02-2021
I notice Scot Labour leadership hopeful, Monica Lennon, has called for Matt Hancock's resignation after his unlawful cover-up of billion pounds of contract details formally confirmed in a court of law. It is curious that her stance puts her at odds with her Labour leader, Starmer!
RE: Labour Leadership Contest - spireitematt - 22-02-2021
Starmer has now thrown teachers under the bus by opposing strike action by teachers and says they may have to work through the holidays.