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+----- Thread: Thread For Anything But Football (/showthread.php?tid=1583)
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RE: Thread For Anything But Football - WakeyTerrier - 26-04-2016
The correct decision just far to many years late.
RIP 96
RE: Thread For Anything But Football - Imre varadi - 26-04-2016
i was outside leppings lane i saw what happened . i dont agree with question 7 its just doing as its told so the victims dont make more waves !
so how much money will sheff wed lose now ? millions billions or thousands ? and can we now knock the dammn shithole down and wipe away any trace of this awfull mess ?
RE: Thread For Anything But Football - St Charles Owl - 26-04-2016
(26-04-2016, 13:52)Imre varadi Wrote: i was outside leppings lane i saw what happened . i dont agree with question 7 its just doing as its told so the victims dont make more waves !
so how much money will sheff wed lose now ? millions billions or thousands ? and can we now knock the dammn shithole down and wipe away any trace of this awfull mess ?
I also don't fully agree with the answer to Question 7. The crush outside could certainly have been prevented or alleviated by better policing and they need to take the blame for that but there has to be some blame on the way the supporters were all pushing and shoving outside to make the crush worse. A lot of this is not as black and white as some of the questions seem to me but then I am not a lawyer either.
I do think the overall verdict is right, Duckenfield performed crap on the day and this ultimately caused 96 people to die. There were multiple points all the way up to the game being stopped where this could have been prevented if an experienced and capable officer was in charge.
The second question you ask Imre is also one I would like to know the answer to. What liability do all the parties now have as a result of this verdict?? The SYP, Sheffield City Council, SWFC, The FA, Eastwood & Partners and South Yorkshire Ambulance service were all mentioned in this as being partly responsible for various aspects of this, does that mean we will now see a bunch of civil or criminal cases against those parties and if so what happens then??
RE: Thread For Anything But Football - Owlkev71 - 26-04-2016
Somebody on another forum said our insurers would be sorting it, though I would be surprised if that's the case. Problem as I see it, is nobody at the club now, were around back in 1989, shouldn't the people in charge of the club, if still alive, be prosecuted, rather than the current regime.
I think the club might get a fine, imo, when it is all done and dusted.
RE: Thread For Anything But Football - St Charles Owl - 26-04-2016
(26-04-2016, 16:39)Owlkev71 Wrote: Somebody on another forum said our insurers would be sorting it, though I would be surprised if that's the case. Problem as I see it, is nobody at the club now, were around back in 1989, shouldn't the people in charge of the club, if still alive, be prosecuted, rather than the current regime.
I think the club might get a fine, imo, when it is all done and dusted.
In reality the club were guilty regarding the safety certificate and the general state of repair at the ground but Eastwood and Partners and Sheffield City Council were responsible for the safety certs etc. Really not convinced who would or even could fine us for any of this?? If there is to be any action it will come in the form of lawsuits by the families against the parties that were found to be responsible, how far that extends to us is the question?
RE: Thread For Anything But Football - madsteve - 26-04-2016
The primary cause for the loss of lives was the culture in football at the time.
I attended over 70 different grounds in the 70s & 80s and was regularly placed in similar situations at the majority of grounds where a poor policing decision, lots of fans arriving at once or a few drunken idiots could have caused a crush situation. It was just a question of when & where it happened because it was inevitable. Sadly, it happened on our patch.
Hopefully, this gives solace to everyone & they move on rather than pursuing financial gain from the various parties. I know from personal experience that little is gained from these actions.
RE: Thread For Anything But Football - peiowl - 26-04-2016
does/did the club carry insurance to protect itself from liability? In the case of negligence though, any such policy may be invalidated.
RE: Thread For Anything But Football - St Charles Owl - 26-04-2016
(26-04-2016, 17:10)madsteve Wrote: The primary cause for the loss of lives was the culture in football at the time.
I attended over 70 different grounds in the 70s & 80s and was regularly placed in similar situations at the majority of grounds where a poor policing decision, lots of fans arriving at once or a few drunken idiots could have caused a crush situation. It was just a question of when & where it happened because it was inevitable. Sadly, it happened on our patch.
Hopefully, this gives solace to everyone & they move on rather than pursuing financial gain from the various parties. I know from personal experience that little is gained from these actions.
I think any fan who regularly went to football games in those times, who stood on the vast terraces or were herded like cattle as away supporters would have found themselves in similar, albeit thankfully less fatal situations. Unfortunately due to the cover up by the Government, Police and media and the stories of drunkeness and ticketless fans being the sole cause in their spin from the beginning meant that the fans and culture in football at the time were never going to be apportioned any blame.
The design of that terrace with the fences and the pens was totally as a result of fan behavior and the police desire to put segregation and containment of fans above their safety, and marauding fans running across terraces like was seen at Heysel was a major factor in the pens being erected to control fans.
(26-04-2016, 20:50)peiowl Wrote: does/did the club carry insurance to protect itself from liability? In the case of negligence though, any such policy may be invalidated.
Have the club beeen found criminally negligent or has that indictment just been placed at the feet of SYP?? I am sure the club has liability insurance but would it be the insurance from 1989 that would be used as we are now a wholly different company to what we were then. I am sure that MM and DC both looked into the likely fallout from a verdict like this when they bought the club, you would be a very poor businessman if you didn't and neither of those guys strike me as being bad at their jobs!!
RE: Thread For Anything But Football - Was Wereham Owl - 26-04-2016
As sorry as I feel for the victims, I cannot see (question7) how no blame whatsoever is at the feet of the Liverpool fans, some of those I saw on that day were in a horrendous state, and bragging about having no tickets but would force themselves in "No matter what" ..and this is partly the result of the no matter what attitude, yes there was blame attached to the SYP, , and maybe even Eastwood & Partners, but the ambulance service .. that's a joke they tried to save people, unfortunately I can only see this going one way, civil claims against SYP and Sheff Wed, which to me is an absolute joke , the families wanted closure , they have now got it ... but it WILL NOT stop them suing anyone they can , where there'sblame there is a claim culture .. are Italians going to go after Heysel Stadium and the Liverpool fans now .. because there they were certainly to blame ...
RE: Thread For Anything But Football - peiowl - 27-04-2016
(26-04-2016, 21:42)St Charles Owl Wrote:(26-04-2016, 17:10)madsteve Wrote: The primary cause for the loss of lives was the culture in football at the time.
I attended over 70 different grounds in the 70s & 80s and was regularly placed in similar situations at the majority of grounds where a poor policing decision, lots of fans arriving at once or a few drunken idiots could have caused a crush situation. It was just a question of when & where it happened because it was inevitable. Sadly, it happened on our patch.
Hopefully, this gives solace to everyone & they move on rather than pursuing financial gain from the various parties. I know from personal experience that little is gained from these actions.
I think any fan who regularly went to football games in those times, who stood on the vast terraces or were herded like cattle as away supporters would have found themselves in similar, albeit thankfully less fatal situations. Unfortunately due to the cover up by the Government, Police and media and the stories of drunkeness and ticketless fans being the sole cause in their spin from the beginning meant that the fans and culture in football at the time were never going to be apportioned any blame.
The design of that terrace with the fences and the pens was totally as a result of fan behavior and the police desire to put segregation and containment of fans above their safety, and marauding fans running across terraces like was seen at Heysel was a major factor in the pens being erected to control fans.
(26-04-2016, 20:50)peiowl Wrote: does/did the club carry insurance to protect itself from liability? In the case of negligence though, any such policy may be invalidated.
Have the club beeen found criminally negligent or has that indictment just been placed at the feet of SYP?? I am sure the club has liability insurance but would it be the insurance from 1989 that would be used as we are now a wholly different company to what we were then. I am sure that MM and DC both looked into the likely fallout from a verdict like this when they bought the club, you would be a very poor businessman if you didn't and neither of those guys strike me as being bad at their jobs!!
SCO: see Owlskev's post Q8-11. It sounds to me that the jury does place part of the blame on SWFC, its physical plant and conduct. Would that hold up i a court of law? I don't know but the burden of proof in civil cases is not as high as in crown prosecutions. A class action suit by the parents and/or family members of the deceased seems more than likely to me.