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+--- Thread: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? (/showthread.php?tid=2762)
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RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - 0762 - 24-01-2019
But they are generally insignificant in Scotland, nothing like being dictated to by a Tory govt in Westminster that Scots do not vote for!! The difference is night and day and it is not that long ago that there were more pandas in Scotland than Toerag MPs!! That political obscurity will definitely return in the "not too distant future"!!!
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - hibeejim21 - 24-01-2019
It doesn't matter what Scotland votes for - it gets tories and tory politics. Mainly because of the crazy electoral system and middle England's preference for these mean, despicable bastards.
I think brexit being stopped first and foremost would be best for the entire UK in the long run, but its too late now I fear. Corbyn's idiotic,outdated mistrust of the EU is going to cost him the next election and any chance to put some of his progressive politics into practice that would genuinely reboot a lot of england's "forgotten" communities.
The brexiteers can hardly believe they actually got away with it - the biggest heist in our history and enough people voted for it. Laughing all the way to the bank, they are.
Now they can lap up the proceeds and look forward to making a fortune when an impoverished Britain can no longer afford decent public services which must therefore, of necessity be sold off.... and coincidentally trump knows some people who can help with that.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - 0762 - 24-01-2019
Good comments! I regard Scotland as being "held hostage" by these Tory and DUP bastards but not all of them as many share the same alarm at the prospect of this impending economic catastrophe. One can only hope that parliament finally "gets to grip" with this crisis and somehow forces a route towards a second EU referendum and the opportunity to hold the status quo! I just hope that Gina Miller's successful effort at the Supreme Court was not in vain.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - Devongone - 24-01-2019
Remainers conveniently manipulate the referendum result to make it appear that in view of the closeness of the result, that the odd half-truth (which is the norm in our politically idiotic system) somehow invalidates the whole process. It is much nearer the truth to say that if London hadn't voted 59.9% for Remain no one would be even contemplating stopping Brexit or re-running the referendum. Truth is no-one gives a flying fkcu about the 62% in Scotland or the 55.8% in Northern Ireland who wanted to remain. I'm not saying that's right or fair or that I agree with that view, but that's where the power lies. London matters, the rest of the country might as well ring in sick.
The North West of England voted 53.7% to Leave.
The East of England were 56.5% Leave.
West Midlands was 59.3%.
Yorkshire and Humberside was 57.7%.
East Midlands went 58.8%.
The North East was 58.6%.
That isn't cosy middle England. It isn't Tory hobbit-like shires. It's the old manufacturing heart of the country backed by Wales too! In the twelve areas of the UK into which the BBC split the vote the result was 9-3 for Leave. 9-3 ..... every football fan can see why it's a score Scotland would like to forget.
In truth only a metropolitan elite which benefits in every way from investment and development, a nation which wants out of the UK and should have its own independence, and a bit of Ireland which should be part of a nation which IS in the EU voted to stay. It's not much of an argument for claiming the referendum was manipulated by mysterious forces.
I can see why Mr Corbyn hesitates. There is a huge divide between vociferous middle-class Labour activists and the working class. He knows he's walking on eggshells as much as Mrs May is treading hot coals.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - hibeejim21 - 24-01-2019
"In truth only a metropolitan elite which benefits in every way from investment and development"
That's pish though. The EU has consistently invested huge amounts into cornwall (leave) and south wales (leave) do you seriously think the tories are going to plug that gap ?
Have a look for yourself and see if its fair to say that only the elite have benefited from EU investment.
https://www.myeu.uk/.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - 0762 - 24-01-2019
Your defining comment is "that's where the power lies" (that is why many Scots scoff at the shameless equal partnership hypocrisy by too many ENGLISH unionist politicians and others!!!) and btw London is a part of England and its % vote was as relevant as the other votes. It just suits the argument that brexit has some outstanding reason to be validated, even a no deal, which is ridiculous because of the closeness of the result and the shameless shenanigans attached to it incl the murder of that poor Labour MP, Jo Cox! I must also add for over two years I've read and listened to the same repetitive nonsense such as uttered in thread #1224 and they are insinuations/opinions, most of which have been refuted by referring to proper EU and government documents! Being an ex academic who has studied transport economics, macro economics and covered many research docs, I do find much of this unsubstantiated stuff extremely tedious and disingenuous and the only response is to refer to the proper scripts and references that can generally refute a lotta the shit that is being uttered by various categories of people with an agenda that effectively centres on "leaving the EU, it'll be OK (sic)". It is as Jim eloquently described it - the charlatans actually "got away with it" in 2016 and couldn't believe their luck and now they are desperate to make it happen on a 52% vote that has swung the other way since the year 2016. In Scotland, it is estimated that the remain vote is higher now and above the 70% mark! I'd estimate that the English one will be similarly up but never as high as the Scottish votes! IMO it indicates the disparity in culture, values, society between the two countries! There are a lotta factors "in the mix" that make England what it is at the moment and many of these "negative" factors have been debated on this Sb board.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - spireitematt - 24-01-2019
(24-01-2019, 16:19)hibeejim21 Wrote: "In truth only a metropolitan elite which benefits in every way from investment and development"
That's pish though. The EU has consistently invested huge amounts into cornwall (leave) and south wales (leave) do you seriously think the tories are going to plug that gap ?
Have a look for yourself and see if its fair to say that only the elite have benefited from EU investment.
https://www.myeu.uk/.
The thing is Dev is right. Everything seems to be centered around London and the inside bubble of the M25. It's what London wants because it's like London only matters and sod the rest of the UK. The EU funding has not gone towards places in the North of England, where there is no industry anymore. The Northern towns and cities in the UK had industry like coal mining, steel works, car manufacturing but everything has either been sold off or its moved to Europe because it's cheaper. Even if areas do get EU funding it's spent on white elephants with a big blue plague up to say the EU funded it. People think if we remain in the EU, it will be a bed of roses and the land of milk and honey and that we won't have austerity anymore and everything will just be perfect with rainbows and unicorns but it just isn't true. We've had austerity while being inside the EU and we will do afterwards because of this Tory Government.
In this country people said the North/South divide doesn't exist but it does exist and it will always exist. London will always come before the rest of the UK and it's not right, it's time the wealth was distributed evenly in the North of England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland etc.
If I was in charge, my plan after Brexit would be fund the NHS properly, build social housing, fund public services and infrastructure, scrap HS2, create public energy and water companies where the people can buy shares, for the people by the people. Would build industry again, car manufacturing, Technology etc and export them to the rest of the World.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - 0762 - 24-01-2019
I challenge the viability of what you really positively expect in your last paragraph and would suggest that you do the same thing without brexit and are therefore in a more advantageous position economically to do it!!!! Many of these failures should be directed at the British govt, past and present, with failed and "tired" political ideologies. Lastly, I suggest that you try and read a very enlightening book by Adam Smith titled, "The Wealth of Nations".
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - spireitematt - 24-01-2019
(24-01-2019, 21:03)0762 Wrote: I challenge the viability of what you really positively expect in your last paragraph and would suggest that you do the same thing without brexit and are therefore in a more advantageous position economically to do it!!!! Many of these failures should be directed at the British govt, past and present, with failed and "tired" political ideologies. Lastly, I suggest that you try and read a very enlightening book by Adam Smith titled, "The Wealth of Nations".
It can be done outside the EU too. You would have to make sure the Multi-National companies pay there tax and close loopholes so none of the top 1% could tax dodge. Britain isn't a poor country, we are a very wealthy country but the wealth isn't distributed it's mainly kept by the top 1%.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - 0762 - 25-01-2019
I share your sentiment re proper re-distribution of wealth and I certainly empathise re the wealth base concentrated on London and SE. However, I would still emphasise that the UK maybe rich compared with many other global nations but it will most certainly be poorer by removing itself from the EU no matter what "tweak" or economic model you wish to tout! We're talking about billions n billions of quid lost to the country and that "economic hit" will be picked up by millions of families!! A competent govt does not do that and should not do that for obvious reasons!!!