[hibeejim21]

To be fair though matt its hard to know what your mind is because it seems like its all over the shop. You more than anyone on here has argued with passion the case for brexit and argued the farage/daily mail narratives even when they were shown to be bullshit.

I'm not trying to have a go at you, I just genuinely don't know what your trying to say. If I was as eurosceptic as you seem to be no way would I have voted remain.

And its not particularly Neo-liberalism thats the problem here.....The EU is less Neo-liberal than the conservatives, in that it at least tries to make big organisations pay tax and look after the environment. Anyway even if that wasn't so leaving the EU wouldn't change the course of the ship. If anything it would make us more vulnerable to neoliberal pressures.

Yes I want us to leave the EU but not cut full on ties with them, we still need to trade with them and have a relationship on good terms. I never argued the Farage and Daily Mail narratives. I don't like the direction that the EU is going in, they constantly keep going on about further integration and expanding the membership. I don't like the political aspect of the EU, the red tape and bureaucracy. I believe it should be a commonwealth, a commonwealth of Europe. I very much dislike the behaviour of the European Central Bank and the way they treated southern European countries especially Greece and Italy and forced austerity on them. They also have pro-competition laws where it can make nationalisation difficult. The EU are lobbied by multi-national companies as is our Government and Parliament.

That view of Brexit was never heard as it was Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Gove and Farage whose view of Brexit was heard by the media and the people. I guess they never cared about those things I wrote above as with them it was about turning us into a low tax, low regulation offshore country.

The EU has a president and a militarised police force, it's pushing for it's own army, helped stir up the crisis in Ukraine with it's expansionism. The single currency has been a disaster for millions of people across and Europe. They called the Greeks lazy and forced them to make cuts to there public services in exchange for more loans. José Manuel Barroso when he was the European Commission president said "I like to compare the EU as a creation to the organisation of empire. We have the dimension of empire." A EU superstate would suit the US, it's multi-nationals and it's military as one leader would be easier to deal with then 50 separate one's, the same argument would go for a single currency as well.

To sum it up. I would like the EU to go back to being just a trading bloc with freedom of movement without the political side of it or the red tape or bureaucracy. I don't want to see the EU break up as a whole or for countries to go nationalistic like we had during the World Wars.

By the way I voted Remain because I thought the whole thing could be reformed and the fact that I didn't trust the tories and still don't. I am not on my own with this view either, I know several people who are eurosceptic who voted Remain. I don't agree with how the Tories have handled Brexit and they will make a mess of this country and turn us into a banana republic.

I don't like the political aspect of the EU, the red tape and bureaucracy.


This was one of the lines that the leave campaign used extensively in their campaign. 'Were being held back by all this red tape' Then the BBC interviewer questions some dopey xxxx behind a stall somewhere down south and gets him to confirm it ,all suitably indignant, but rarely asking the question how it affects them materially. And when they did they usually got a massive 'errrrr' or some other xxxx nonsense about bananas. Its totally meaningless.

Of course what farage,banks and co meant in their fury against this stifling 'red tape' was getting rid of any kind of standards and accountability so they can flood the UK with cheap garbage and sidestep employment and environmental laws. Doesn't matter to them if it damages peoples health or not.

I could also point out the instances where the EU has actually reduced the amount of red tape and bureaucracy across the 28...say in patent law for instance but that's for another time, I've got to work shortly.

In short, much of the protections and safeguards we enjoy today are enshrined in bureaucracy and 'red tape'.