[0762]

Yep! I've never seen much of Brandt and now come to the conclusion that Loewe has favoured many of his 'trusted' A team players. Now he must give the best of his 'next generation' players a chance to impress and contribute to the 'cause'.

[0762]

Sweden 1 Germany 2 and in their second group match Germany do what the Germans have done so well in years gone by and did it with 10 men and with about 20 secs remaining! Why the Swedish defender fouled Brandt, I'll never know - I assume it's all about what goes on in a player's head at this stage of a tense match and wrong decisions are made. However, Tony Kroos still had a lot to do in delivering his angled free kick in the 'postage stamp corner' of Sweden's goal and he did it - magnificent and this result is legendary!!! Imagine being there as a German fan? From deflation to elation and observing a 'never say die' performance like this one - so enjoyable to watch and lets see where this result now takes them from this point onwards.

[turkeydinner]

Muller is another who hasn't done enough for me

Werner has great movement and speed but needs another out and out Striker with him Gomez isn't the greatest option ever but he`s a lot better to get on the end of all those crosses than the more buzzing Werner

they really need to go from 2-7-1 to 2-6-2

[0762]

You're right TD. Joachim Loewe needs to 'tweak' his formation to make it better. Gomez should've 'put them in easy street' with some awful missed scoring opps in front of the Swedish goal in the 2nd half. It's funny how they really 'sparked into life' after losing Boateng, a 'liability btw, to that 2nd yellow card/red card - 'upped into another gear' and what a good game to watch and culminating in that world class 'strike' in the last min.

[hibeejim21]

When they moved werner out wide they really caught sweden out i think, sweden became more narrow and germany gradually got joy cutting inside. You have to hand it to loew, i thought germany were out for sure at half time but somehow he stayed calm and changed their shape.

I felt for sweden i have to say,but that free kick was just sublime.

And brandt has been excellent when he came on in both games now. Boy looks a player.

[turkeydinner]

Well possession is OK but unless you take your chances

Lackluster Germany performance over all three matches, very one paced, hitting crosses into a box to a Michael Owen type Striker or badly shooting outside the area
Hugely let down by those who have the reputation and had been there- Ozil, Khaedira, Muller
No player looked threatening like the days of Thomas Hassler and Andreas Moller, No real all round forwards like Jurgen Klinsmann or Rudi Voller, For all their apparent worth the current Centre backs aren't a patch on Jurgen Kohler

Losing to plucky South Korea isn't the death knell of German Football or failing to make the second stage
They still have excellent players but hopefully will take the blinkers off

[0762]

Yep! A good summary of that poor performance although one must comment that the hot, humid conditions were tortuous! However, that doesn't dismiss this lacklustre display one bit and I can't believe Loewe actually played Orzil at all - no responsibility or drive from him in that position. Werner, a highly rated striker 'hiding' on the wings but he could hardly cross a ball at all. And bringing on Mueller as a sub? Baffling because Mueller is crap, never played that well for a long, long time!! What a waste of a sub player. As for Hummel's 'sitter' of a goal opp/header at 0-0 in the 2nd half? What a shocker and the reaction of the German bench 'said it all'. IMO that was the 'pivotal moment' in this game! But poetic justice for Sweden who deserved to qualify, the same as Mexico whose players will be relieved that Germany didn't eliminate them for their 'no show' performance. I'll be surprised if Joachim Loewe does not resign from his post - a big question mark re his judgement on choice of players!

[hibeejim21]

That performance was shocking the day,they really looked like they didn't want to go through.

I said in my original post on here that i felt something was wrong behind the scenes with the germans and i still think thats the case. One good half of play against sweden isn't enough to get through the groups. The players they have are definitely good enough to get to the latter stages.

germany used 20 of their 23 players in the 3 games, a clear sign low didn't really know how to approach this tournament and that something was wrong. He's recently signed a new deal,but i can see him getting punted after this shambles.

[0762]

A good 'spot' Jim. I similarly concluded there were a good number of German players who 'didn't wanna be there' and their general contribution in games was 'suspicious' in the extreme - that was confirmed today. And that previously debated Sane omission was a real gaffe eh after watching this whole debacle!

[Devongone]

This German squad looked strong, to the extent that fans on here were gasping for breath pre-tournament, but it was unusually conservative, which was exactly how it played.

Goalkeepers: Manuel Neuer (Bayern Munich), Marc-Andre ter Stegen (Barcelona), Kevin Trapp (Paris St-Germain).

Defenders: Jerome Boateng (Bayern Munich), Matthias Ginter (Borussia Monchengladbach), Jonas Hector (Cologne), Mats Hummels (Bayern Munich), Joshua Kimmich (Bayern Munich), Marvin Plattenhardt (Hertha Berlin), Antonio Rudiger (Chelsea), Niklas Sule (Bayern Munich).

Midfielders: Julian Brandt (Bayer Leverkusen), Julian Draxler (Paris St-Germain), Leon Goretska (Schalke), Ilkay Gundogan (Manchester City), Sami Khedira (Juventus), Toni Kroos (Real Madrid), Mesut Ozil (Arsenal), Sebastian Rudy (Bayern Munich).

Strikers: Mario Gomez (Stuttgart), Thomas Muller (Bayern Munich), Marco Reus (Borussia Dortmund), Timo Werner (RB Leipzig).

Having watched their games I can see why Leroy Sane wasn't shining in warm-up games. He's used to a quick David Silva-like pass and move style that suits his pace-based game. This German side was pond-er-ous. It shouldn't have been a case of Sane or Brandt but both and who to put with them. From Neuer forward players were selected who went out wearing their reputation rather than a German shirt .... but rumours of the demise of the German game are well-exaggerated.

There is a long list of players in the 25 years and under age-group who might have slotted in to add life a fairly lifeless squad:-

Not only would Leroy Sane have pepped up their attack, but also Julian Wiegl would surely have been a better bet than the struggling Khedira, as would Benjamin Henrichs. Ginter was in the squad but didn't get on the field did he? Jonathan Tah made the long list, but was cut from the short ........ Emre Can, Max Meyer, Nadim Amiri, Kai Havertz, Mahmoud Dahoud spring to mind in midfield. Thilo Kehrer is another versatile young defender and maybe Max Philipp from Dortmund might have troubled defences more than the statuesque Mario Gomez. In the current squad the giant Sule is only 22, and Draxler, Brandt, and Goretska are still improving ........ and Kimmich is eventually going to get to grips with where full backs normally play against decent opposition.

I'm sure fans with a better knowledge of German football can come up with other young-er players for whom this elimination will be a massive opportunity. BUT whilst the Spanish at one point seemed to be demonstrating centre forwards were no longer necessary, the Germans have gone out of their way to prove their worth. Werner's inexperience brought his reasonable, but not sensational, abilities into sharp relief. Looking beyond the squad it is hard to see another centre point for the German attack coming through, Philipp maybe? Seltz? Werner himself given time and better service and support? Certainly given their slow build-up the German attack looked toothless. Sweden, South Korea and Mexico all held them fairly easily for long periods.