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Betfred Cup semi-final v Saint Johnstone, Sat 23 Jan, KO 5.30pm
#21
Think we all kind of knew that was going to happen, it was a typical Hibs performance and some very strange tactical or lack of descions, I'm beyond Ross now I dont think he's the man to lead this club forward after another in a very long list of big games lost, what a waste of a season, we will either capitulate now or go forward and win a European place (I have my doubts we will even get that).
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#22
I can understand a lotta Hibs fans "sitting on the fence" and conceding that we don't get rid of the manager because that will render the club to be insecure but may I ask, "When is a good time to sack a manager esp when we realise that manager is not gonna win anything for HFC because he clearly has limited capabilities"?? So the concession from said fans is that we see out the season and just "peter out" and that is the end of another wasted football season after being impressed by Ron Gordon's "Hibs renaissance speech" in Feb 2020 and how HFC will be positively transformed for future competitions. I'm repeating myself but I don't like the scenario where Hibs FC was receiving generous semi-final donations from loyal Hibs fans who were then rewarded by a humiliating result where even the "do minimum" strong work ethic/full commitment/playing for the Hibs jersey was violated by quite a few Hibs players. That really was "crossing a red line" IMO. Should HFC return that money to the loyal fans who gladly paid it in good faith and expecting a genuine effort to compete in a semi-final that they had a very good chance of winning if the right decisions and tactics were deployed? Hibs still have a Scottish Cup campaign to take on soon and I'm expecting a big effort to try and win it but not with this manager!! My perception of JR now is the Sunderland fans' one where they were hoping against hope that he would succeed but discovered the same thing that most Hibs fans have conceded now - he is a "nearly man" with limited capabilities as a manager! He can generally win matches v opponents who are clearly inferior to the Hibs teams that he coaches but don't give this man a complicated game to take on. Also the transfer market is still open. Hibs acquired some players but the defensive players who we require in the identified weak area of our team have not been acquired!!!? I'd love to find a proper captain as well - what a difference that would make after shoring up the defensive area of concern - we all know who I'm talking about and what needs to be done to redress that prob!! Decisions, decisions and Ron Gordon will find my letter of complaint on his desk as I "wear my Hibs shareholder's hat" to say that this is not good enough and the warning signs were self-evident weeks n weeks ago. Ross County defeat - an embarrassment!!Thumb down Livingston FC defeat - another embarrassment!!Thumb down Then yesterday's real negative "icing on the cake" - the Saint Johnstone defeat - A HUMILIATION!!Thumb down I'd personally go for Jack's removal and bring in either Stubbsy or poss Tommy Wright who I reckon would do a good job at Hibs with the current resources available to him. Aye, decisions, decisions OR we just give it up for the season - just under 4 months to go if the "plug isn't pulled" on Scot footie by the Scot govt - "throw in the towel"??? Huhhhh!!
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#23
0762
I said previously that all of the blame was not down to the manager and the players need to look at themselves but you disagreed and put the blame at the managers door. If you saw the match yesterday you will see what I meant. Many of our players did not look that interested, had no urgency about their movement and put little effort into getting back into the game. That is not down to the manager but to the individuals involved. These players are being paid quite handsomely not only to represent Hibernian Football Club but to represent us the fans. If they can't put in the effort some of them need to go.
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#24
Wattie my view re this issue doesn't disregard what you have said about the responsibility of certain Hibs players and you can go back and read some of my threads that slam into the lack of commitment and accountability of certain Hibs players. But ultimately the manager, Jack Ross, has to manage and control these players accordingly. He has to deal with such probs, even drop individuals if need be!! That is where we differ and I assume you don't believe Ross is not culpable enough to merit dismissal. I think he is culpable in not applying enough tough management skills to bear in altering this Hibs side to actually perform properly again and win important games - his record is damning! If he can't demand a proper work ethic from this group of players, much like Martindale is doing at Livingston, then there is no way back for JR IMO!! Remember John Collins and the issue re a strong work ethic and a demanding training regime - that's what he wanted and he lost to player power! This scenario is slightly different in the fact that Ross has other frailties as a manager of Hibs FC. We both want the same thing: ultimate success sooner rather than later. However, tough decisions sometimes have to be made to get there eventually. I agree with Bouncinghibees that we look like we are gonna waste another footie season that I still believe is retrievable with this group of players plus a couple of necessary tweaks. Not with Ross "at the helm" though.
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#25
Can see both sides of the argument.

As Wattie says, once they cross that white line, the players have to rise to the challenge and influence the game with the way they play and their desire.Both these attributes were sadly missing on Saturday and at other times during this season. As someone said, our league position flatters to deceive as nearly all games have been a tough watch and we certainly rode our luck in many which eventually turned out to be Hibs wins.

However the manager decides the team formation and tactics for on the field and should be building a strong team spirit and mentality off the pitch. On paper we may have a reasonable squad but this does not lead to a team that plays together well on the park. This is down to the managerial side.

Ross decides where to strengthen the squad and in my mind we are sadly missing in the back four and at least one other striker...........a good goal poacher like Griffiths is needed. ( sadly we can't afford him) Nisbet needs wide players to be flashing crosses into the box and he is a good finisher whereas on Saturday he played the loan striker with little support so was inocuous for the most part. As for Doidge, I don't rate at all.......slow and usually needs the opposition to get the final touch lol.

With the back four, good competition is coming in for the LB position but we sadly miss two ( tall!!) no nonsense experienced bruisers in the centre. Hanlon and Porteous together are not the answer and am sure it would help Ryans game to play alongside such experienced CBs. Talking of Hanlon we also need a strong captain and leader on the pitch.......that is not Paul Hanlon I am afraid.

All Ross seems to do is get in midfielder after midfielder without really knowing how they are going to fit in, what their best position is and many are unfit or recovering from serious injury. Irvine looked good on Saturday and there is certainly a player in there. However I feel as he is with us to the end of the season he is just putting himself in the shop window and he will be looking to move on ASAP, especially having seen the abject performance at the weekend. Players need to know and be comfortable with the role they are playing.

Some fans say if we had taken our chances we would have been 3 up in the first 30 minutes. This I dispute as once we netted one St Johnstone would have changed their game plan ( defend for the first half and look for a set piece goal as they know we struggle to break down a packed defence) . Having got one we also tend to defend deeper and then look for the quick break ........something St J did well! If we don't score first, we struggle.

So the Ross squad, to me, is unbalanced and his team selection was odd for the semi final. Boyle plays more centrally on one of the widest pitches in Scotland, he plays 3 players with little game time and possibly fitness in the middle of the park and does not pick a dead ball specialist so we then rely on Boyle..........as we saw,he struggles to cross a dead ball........surely they must have seen this in training? ( when I see a player always hitting the first defender with the set piece I am always taken back to my days at Edgar Street watching Hereford United where Paul Tester inevitably did this and an old guy in the crowd would always shout....."first defender Tester".........he took to shouting it before the kick was taken in the end lol.) I know Mallan may be moving but would have been worth a punt as he looks to impress and can strike a good free kick and certainly Hallberg can cross a dead ball and played well v Killie. Ross did change it after the second goal by bringing Doidge on and pushing Boyle wide but by that time the fight seemed to have drained from the squad and it was too little too late. Teams are also prepared for this as they double up on Boyle and know if they take him out the game by marking or fouling we are virtually toothless. Nobody else seems to be able to use the extra space created by this. When you watch sevco against sides who do the same to Ryan Kent plenty of other Rangers players use this extra space......as we may see on Wednesday night!

However the question always is, who do you bring in and will they be any better. Hibs have had a succession of managers and although some impress to start they all tend to fall away, so since we are in a good position in the League I feel Ross will be there for a while. As 0762 says, it is a good job for him there are no crowds in the stadia as by now he certainly would be feeling the wrath of the fans and also attendances would be falling at ER........something that influences these types of decisions.

GGTTH
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#26
My only additional comment to that summary of Hibs/JR's plight this season is that I hope Ron Gordon is watching this and "hurting" as much as I am re a situation that ultimately should be much better than it is at the moment. This crisis has definitely been "simmering" for a while as the negative signs on the pitch were clearly that obvious. IMO Ron Gordon appears to be fairly proactive and ambitious enough to demand remedial action asap. I concur with NH's criticism of Hibs weak CB position and have previously commented that I wish Hibs had moved for Livy's CB, Guthrie, or similar. I would urgently move to strengthen that position alone because that part of the team needs a strong and able leader to dominate the players around him, protect our pen box far more effectively than of late and ultimately remove the "soft touch" criticism that Bouncinghibees has referred to often enough and never goes away - that prob must be redressed as a priority!! It has "dragged on" for far too long!!!Thumb down
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#27
Watties right about the attitude of a lot of the players 2nd half, left a lot to be desired and its something thats plagued hibs for a while now - think back to lennons "boy band" quote.
But ultimately its Jacks job to give them that impetus in the dressing room and on the training ground. For some reason he struggles to adapt and get hibs moving when things are not going our way.
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#28
It is ultimately all about how a manager functions Jim. Some managers are clearly far superior to others when it comes down to the nitty gritty stuff and controlling a big group of players effectively, applying the proper psychology, identifying the "loafers" and managing them effectively, using the really decent players to instill a good camaraderie and positive spirit around the dressing room. Basically trying to keep a big group of players "sweet". The better managers, shrewd operators, demand a lotta money and for footie clubs like Hibs the challenge is always gonna be finding that manager with the potential to really manage at a higher level than the standard needed for the Scot Prem. That manager would be a "jewel in the crown" and I guess we would only keep him for a short period as success draws other bigger footie interest - a fact of footie life. I reckon Lennon was one of Hibs best appointments in recent years when everything initially was "sweet" and "ticking over" nicely and IMO he was definitely a better manager than JR will ever be in various ways. It is just a pity his job termination ended in such an unsatisfactory way. Otherwise I'd definitely say that I'd take back Lennon "in a heartbeat" after comparing his efforts with those of so many "duds" who have bogusly taken over the manager's role at ER Stadium. Colin Calderwood anybody??? I can remember challenging him all these years ago at a shareholders' meeting to please find a proper Hibs captain and his reply to me in the FF bar was that there was nobody in the whole squad who he could find or identify!!!? To which I replied, "Well you surely bring in your own man Colin, somebody who you know has some kinda leadership skills on the pitch eh"!! He just looked totally lost, IMO didn't have enough contacts in the game, nous etc - clueless!! Rolleyes
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#29
Lampard now available 0762.........I know it would be a step up for him, but you never know . Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin
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